January 12 , 2005

Arkansas State Land Information Board January 12, 2005 9:25 am – 12:45 pm

University of Arkansas at Little Rock Don Reynolds Center for Business and Economic Development Room 460 Little Rock, AR



Board Members

  • Bob Stanley
  • Traci Moy
  • Russell Gibson
  • Mary Key Sullivan
  • Earl Smith
  • Phyllis Smith
  • Brian Culpepper (For Fred Limp)
  • Judge David Hudson
  • Bill Bush
  • Suzanne Wiley

Board Members not present

  • Mr. Yancey Reynolds
  • Mark Oudin

AGIO Staff

  • Richie Pierce
  • Learon Dalby
  • Shelby Johnson
  • Vince Guillet
  • Kimberly Bogart


  • Jeff Fears (City of Fort Smith)
  • Jim Swena (City of Fort Smith)
  • Robert Fuhler (AHTD)
  • Bill Sneed (USGS)
  • Dorothy Rhodes (AHTD)
  • Bryan Stewart (AHTD)
  • Jim Kenzy (EAST)
  • Amrut Khatri (AHD)

Phyllis Smith called meeting to order at 9:10am.

CORRECTIONS TO 10-06-04 minutes

Corrections to the 10-06-04 minutes were noted by the Board and amended.

-MOTION to approve amended minutes by: Earl Smith

-Bill Bush 2nd

-Motion passed unanimously

New board members were introduced

  • Mark Oudin-not present-will be at next meeting
  • Tracy Moy-Background includes UALR graduate, AR Game & Fish (7 years) as chief of GIS division and ASLIB advisory council since its existence
  • Welcomed by Phyllis Smith


  • Out going members Randy Jones, Mike McGibbony, Jubal Smith
  • In the past as board members leave the ASLIB do resolutions for them and a MOTION by Bill Bush to do so again, 2 nd by Russell Gibson

Report from the State Geographic Information Coordinator included:


  • Since last meeting AGIO was represented at the advisory council meeting hosted by 1 st electric in Jacksonville
  • School Facilities (to be addressed further on in the meeting)
  • Aerial Project update (to be addressed further on in the meeting)
  • Staff Reports
    • Richie Pierce-CAMP-highlights from CAMPcamp: Paid for by Cap grant, hosted in Ferndale, AR. Forty-three people showed up, 35 counties were represented. Attendees enjoyed it and it increased excitement in the counties to get moving with the project. Clay County is getting squared away, almost in GeoStor, about to start phase 2. Same 72 counties showing continuing involvement in CAMP.
    • Vince Guillet - ACF-Benton and Yell added to ACF standard. NO NEW data sine Nov. 10 th. Longest period of no new data, 6-7 counties close to finishing. Working with Howard County on Request For Proposals. White county is getting started. Q-Russell Gibson asked if there is a formal process for getting updated files from data providers. Vince stated that we were working on it. Shelby Johnson mentioned that scheduling for the program is challenging, due to the fact that there are no outside financial incentives for county.
    • Learon Dalby - primary project is facilities school map. Building coordinates were captured, Richie and Vince created IMS interface for internet access of school reports. Been working on keeping the IMS up and running, Senator Broadway is involved
    • Kimberly Bogart - The AGIO is working as a data acquisition go between for the counties and the FEMA contractors. Current accomplishments include the acquisition of statewide bridge data and the cross-walking of that data in FEMA’s guidelines and standards (G&S). Jefferson Co. roads data layer is being re-aligned to increase accuracy, and the attributes of it and other ACF data are being cross-walked into FEMA G&S. She will attend a FEMA training course on floodplain mapping the week of January 16 th. Yell and Saline county’s DFIRMs (Digital Flood Insurance Rate Maps) are complete and Kimberly is attempting to obtain that data for input into GeoStor. St. Francis is close to completion. The official list of the order of the counties was issued by FEMA and those interested can contact Kimberly at the AGIO to obtain it.

Report on GeoStor and related projects included:

  • Shelby Johnson-did not get usage report update from CAST, Brian Culpepper has unofficial report-showing expected/usual increases in use

Old Business

    • Shelby Johnson - following (Aug.) meeting, a Request For Proposals (RFP) to update imagery was drawn up (with the aid of state procurement and DFA) and sent out over the course of Nov. and Dec. But, as of now we have canceled the project for this year. Learon Dalby will brief on issues. Nine proposals were received back. The deliverable products ranged from film to digital with a variety of methods used. An AGIO committee reviewed and rated all of the proposals while being guided by the DFA. The committee then reviewed the cost for each proposal and compared proposals on a point system. Sanborn was initially selected. Negotiations were initiated. Confusion within the RFP halted negotiations due pricing concerns. With about 10 days before flying needed to start no contract was in place. The pricing issues remained and the RFP was removed. Learon will re-write the RFP making it a much cleaner and precise document. Hoped to be finished and issued by May to July of 2005, this will leave more time for review of proposals and for negotiations. Cost submitted by vendors was sealed and DFA has urged no revealing of those costs.
    • Questions:
      • (Russell Gibson – RG) would this be something to look at as professional services as opposed to lowest bid? Answer: (Learon Dalby - LD) It was, The point based system of evaluation was used before cost was brought in to the evaluation.
      • (RG)-were costs as expected? Answer: (LD) yes.
      • (Suzanne Wiley - SW) what are we looking for in the next RFP? Answer: (LD) digital sensor with 1 meter state wide and 1 foot for cities over 10,000 with 10 mile buffer (approx.) Elevation desired is 10m dem (7.6m vertical accuracy, 10m cell size statewide)
      • (SW) Potential for buy in program for 1 foot imagery? Answer: (LD) Yes.
      • (RG) New picture for ground control? Answer: (LD) Yes. With digital sensor, second generation will not be used solely as control. Answer: (Shelby Johnson - SJ) limited ground control was questioned and the AGIO committee was satisfied with technical answers given.
      • (RG) was any Lidar data mentioned in the proposals? Answer: (SJ) traditional methodology was listed, no Lidar, some software driven and others analog. Caused large cost differences.
    • Phyllis Smith mentioned that removing the RFP and reissuing it later this year will allow extra time for when considering the next one.
    • Shelby Johnson mentioned that funding was an issue. Putting it together and the logistics associated with that. Time was a factor.
    • Question:
      • (Brian Culpepper - BC) Pertaining to funding. When is the right time for counties to start allocating money for this project? Answer: (Judge Hudson – JH) In AUG to SEPT, to put it on the books for them locally. This is the best time because this is when they are making budgeting decisions.
  • Advisory Council Members meeting
    • Reported on by Suzanne Wiley-good meeting on Dec. 1 st. Thanked 1 st electric for their hosting of the meeting. Bad day for board members (approx. 8 attended) and advisory (approx. 7 attended). Good presentations, comments and inputs. Topics covered included ADOP, state land commission office and electric filing, rapid real time acquisition of LandSAT, and ACF
    • They also talked about whether they were still on the right track. They decided that YES they were.
    • Also discussed was the AGIO Budget hearing; panel members would be there to support them. They suggested AGIO develop marketing tool for themselves, photoidentifiable ground control points and elevation data. Mentioned to stay better in touch with advisory panel members.
    • Judge Hudson asked if minutes were available for that meeting, he was unable to attend it. Would like copies of Suzanne Wiley’s notes. Phyllis says she will try to get copies out. Earl asked if they could be attached to this meetings minutes
  • Board member travel reimbursement
    • Phyllis Smith – subject was discussed at last meeting; Shelby was to look at the budget to see if money was available.
    • Shelby - - working on existing budget from 3 years ago and feels that money is available for official travel for about 3-4 meetings. Travel budget was included in next biennium budget proposal, must wait to see if the budget is approved. If so, info is needed to get each person into ASSIS to allow payment.
    • Phyllis - - asked what does board feel about it.
    • Judge - - subject does not affect him, his travel is provided by his county.
    • MOTION – Bill Bush– Authorize reimbursements for out of town members to meetings, and to allow it to cover for authorized training/meetings. He says that it is a standard. Judge Hudson 2 nd
    • Suzanne mentioned that until July it will be removing money from the current AGIO’s travel account to pay for the boards travel and she feels that this may hinder the AGIO’s travel capability.
    • Shelby - - if new budget is approved as is, there is a line item for board travel. Until then thanks to grants, we have the money to support travel for 3-4 meetings until the new budget comes into effect.
    • Suzanne - - feels that it is more important that the money is used for AGIO not board members, and wondered if the money is not uses can it in turn be returned to the AGIO for their use?
    • Learon - - Yes
    • Passed unanimously
  • ASPS Survey Definition
    • Shelby – passed out legislation proposed by Arkansas Society of Professional Surveyors to change the definition of land surveying. The land surveying community has convened a group to look at the definition of land surveying and they decided it needed revisions. They have compared it to the national model law and made changes to their definition. They then sent it out for comments to surveyors and the GIS community. The document passed out included highlighted changes in the definition. The AGIO spent time reviewing it and after some debate they believe that with one proposed change to the definition of metadata they would agree with the definition as pertains to the GIS community as a whole.
    • The change needed was on pg 2, item C. Metadata shall be understood to mean…and reference the metadata code enacted by the ASLIB existing already in law. This would remove a possible adverse impact on the GIS community and would help by referring back to our law.
    • Phyllis sent appreciation to Tom Webb in including us in the review process of the changes that surveyors wanted to make and it shows a good level of collaboration with surveyors and GIS for Arkansas.
    • Question: (RG) how does it affect GIS uses of NSDA accuracy et al. Answer: (SJ) no official STAMP or SEAL can be used but accuracy is, and can be, published in the metadata of the files. Re-referencing the ASLIB metadata definition should alleviate any problems. The language in the surveyor’s definition was known as unclear but they couldn’t offer any specific valid changes. So after questioning the accuracy statement issues to the surveying committee, the AGIO feels that the minor change would appropriately cover the GIS community’s interests.
    • Question: (RG) what should and shouldn’t be certified by a surveyor? Confusion on what is allowed and or needed as officially certified. Answer: (SJ) His opinion is that the Board of Engineers and Surveyors should be the party to decide. This will only happen if a complaint is actually made, and then we would have to wait for their decision.
    • RG – The wording of what is a POINT in the definition is too open and could cause problems.
    • Considerable discussion by members and guests including the following: metadata should be well defined. Brian Culpepper mentioned creating a legal disclaimer template for anyone to use to help clean up the accuracy issue for the GIS community. The AGIO has something like this and have been using it for many different purposes.
    • Shelby mentioned that this definition is not law yet and that the AGIO will be tracking this legislation to see where it goes and to make sure that the metadata definition is referenced correctly.
  • AGIO Budget Status
    • Shelby passed out budget information and the summary of appropriation request (sent to legislature)
    • Highlights – moving us to operate out of general revenue as opposed to old way of (onetime general improvement and or capital improvement moneys) will allow us to put in to place some long term programs, staff and travel and training, (Programs – GEOStor as data processing (hard wired into budget) ACF and ADOP). The 2 nd page shows executive recommendation on these issues.
    • Went through 2 budget hearings and the 2 nd allowed time to answer questions and it ended with a recommendation to pass following the executive recommendation. Something not in the executive recommendation was a staff member to work on educational programs (GeoStor training, metadata training…) we will still try to find a way to fund this option.
    • Page (89) discuses the GIS fund and the option of seed funding for GeoStor in the amount of $250,000 each year.
    • Two supplemental appropriation requests were sent out for an aerial photo update and those will be sent to the senate. If approved they will become active this budget year and will allow the money to pass into the next year if not spent. This is a good thing! The bill number will be sent to the board so that they can follow if they would like.
    • Question: (Judge Hudson -- JH) He is contacting supporters to promote the AGIO as mentioned at the last meeting and wondered where that went and how he needs to be involved with it, as an individual relationship as opposed to a campaign. He is willing to strengthen his relationships with his locals. Stressed the need to establish a better understanding of focus, goals and objectives of board and AGIO, and to bring the knowledge level down to the level of those we are trying to gain support from. Clear and Simple.
    • Considerable discussion followed
  • Year-End Report
    • No longer required to do this, agreed to this by Bill
  • Statement of Financial Interest
    • Must be filed to secretary of state by Jan. 31 st 2005
  • LIB Brochure
    • Draft was passed out for review and comments. Nothing official is asked for today.
    • JH wants goals and objectives for 2005 and 2006 to be listed in brochure
  • State GIS Position Description
    • SJ – more than a year ago, panel members questioned the description of GIS users for job description use, and the AGIO looked at several other states examples and created a 4 part break down of job experience levels. It has since been revised down to 3 (technician, specialist, coordinator with a possible step of I and II for specialist). In December, the personnel subcommittee met. Whether it is approved yet is unknown. The AGIO is restructuring their classifications to fit those descriptions. Care was taken so that other states might use our description for themselves.

NEW Business

  • 85 th General Assembly
    • Education Facilities Assessment Workshop
      • The board is again interested in a get together with legislatures about the AGIO and what is available. Learon says it is still on Senator Broadway’s radar, we want to coordinate this with him. It was proposed that it should be in small groups (20 at a time) and possibly followed by a reception. Decisions about this will be influenced by Senator Broadway’s opinion.
    • City Boundary Change Legislation
      • In ULAR work with the fire and police districts they have found that police districts follow the city/county boundaries. In asking them to verify the annexes they found out that annexes are not always sent on to the Secretary of State
      • SJ-Focus on getting boundary changes to go thru the Secretary of State is a very important issue. HAVA and streamline sales and use tax boundary accuracy is relies on correct boundaries.
        • There are about 5-6 ways an annexation can happen and each one has different laws governing how they happen and how they are reported and filed.
        • The AGIO feels that there needs to be changes in all of the laws to make all of the changes to be filed/reported to the secretary of state.
        • Initial steps have been taken to see if and how this will work and how locals feel about the possible changes. We feel this will have multiple benefits and possible make it more efficient for local governments and allow quick and correct updating of the boundaries.
        • Currently the AHTD is our way of getting boundaries and they only obtain their changes through the Secretary of State
      • Shelby says that the AGIO will track this and report this to the board as it evolves
    • Imagery and Centerline Supplemental Appropriation
      • Covered in budget discussion
  • GeoStor Operational Transition Strategy
    • Operating on old machinery and the AGIO is looking at how to move forward and how to operate GeoStor in the future. Possible opportunity to move it to LR and how we might be able to accomplish that. Nothing the board has said stated thus far has stated anything about where GeoStor is housed only that it is still being implemented.
    • Discussion involving what roles CAST and AGIO play in GeoStor’s operation and the use of technology advancements.
    • Robert Fuhler mentioned the updating of the data and how that is handled and addressed. Shelby Johnson mentioned that about 1.5 years ago, a data loading policy was implemented for updates. The AGIO checks the data and then recommends to the board whether or not it should be loaded. As for routine data maintenance, the main data sets being updated are schools, AHD, ACF and CAMP data.
    • Brian Culpepper asked how Benton and Washington CO. should proceed to get data approved by the board to be loaded into GeoStor. Learon says they are on track with what has happened historically as long as it meets accuracy checks and metadata requirement and the funds were provided for it.
    • MOTION -- Suzanne Wiley -- To accept the imagery and elevation data from Benton and Washington counties as long as it meets the accuracy, metadata and that money is provided to load and store it. Judge Hudson 2 nd; it passed unanimously.
    • Brian Culpepper thanked everyone involved with the delivery of the product and all of the cooperation and cooperators involved with this project.
  • Act 1250 Revision (housekeeping)
    • Page 3 – dealing with replacements of members that leave early. Currently the code states that a replacement would be considered as a full term even if it is partial term. Is this an Issue?
      • Bill Bush– problem has been noticed with other boards, depends on how the governor’s office decides on this issue
    • Page 4 – section e - is this statement still pertinent – there is a half time state geodetic advisor at the AHTD
    • Page 3 – section h – the administrative support now comes from the OIT and not DIS. Should DIS be removed from the wording of the code due to new organizational changes with the AGIO and where they are housed.
      • Bill Bush – since governor has appointed someone else from another agency he is unofficially in line with changing the wording. As in it he apparently no longer feels it is necessary if he steps around it himself.
    • Several members are worried about opening up the code and allowing it to possibly be changed by legislature once it is open. Is it really worth opening it?
    • Suzanne Wiley mentions that this act is a revision of a previous act and that the changes were passed without problems and the lack of mentioning funding in the legislation would not give a reason for the legislation to get rid of the bill as a whole. She feels that the changes in the wording of the full-term vs. replacement positions and the elimination of DIS are important issues and important enough to open the bill.
    • Shelby feels that the administration support (P4 item 3h) issue is currently not correct and that the support comes from the OIT now not DIS.
    • Judge Hudson suggests that the AGIO contact the governor’s new Technology Policy Advisor for us about opening up the bill to make these changes for his opinion on this issue.
    • Shelby Johnson - The AGIO will do this and report back to the board as soon as he can.

Other Business

  • Board Member Expiration Dates
    • Suzanne Wiley, Fred Limp, Phyllis Smith will term out in August of 2005. Next up is state agencies.
  • Elections
    • Chair nominations – Russell Gibson by Suzanne Wiley, Judge Harmon 2 nd. Bill Bush moves that nominations cease and election by acclimation. Suzanne Wiley 2 nd; passed unanimously.
    • Vice Chair nominations – Judge Hudson by Russell Gibson, Suzanne Wiley 2 nd. Bill Bush moves that nomination cease and election by acclimation Suzanne Wiley 2 nd; passed unanimously
  • In response to Judge Hudson’s earlier comments, Phyllis Smith recommends that stating goals and objectives be re-addressed to make it clearer and easy to find in the ASLIB literature.
  • Phyllis Smith went over goals and objectives of original planning for this group to highlight where we were as a group then and where we are now and all of our accomplishments.
  • Suzanne Wiley wanted to bring recognition to Phyllis Smith as a retiring chair of this board and a round of applause was offered along with our thanks for all of time and hard work.

COMMENTS from Guests

No comments.

MOTION to Adjourn made by Bill Bush;

Bob Stanley 2 nd; passed unanimously.

Discussion was raised about when the next meeting should be called and the historical scheduling of meetings. No date was proposed.